I really should know better, but I clicked on a link to the DC message boards, topic of the new Frank Miller cover.

In summary... this is why I’m going to stay way the hell over here okay thanks. However, one exchange did catch my attention and would not let me shake it as it might have a sane person.

[livejournal.com profile] maelithil:
Depicting [women] as an ass, a pair of tits, some gorgeous thighs is doing them a disservice. Distilling them into nothing but their sexual attributes is objectifying. And that's exactly what this cover does.


Random Fanboy:
And notice that Superman's chest is OFTEN a whole panel unto itself. Not Superman fighting the bad guy. Not Superman standing full figure. Superman's chest. Just his chest. His huge, massive, S-draped, extraterrestrially muscular chest. Is Superman being objectified? Is he being used? Should I cry for Superman?


And. Just. What? This is the counterexample?

But! Maybe it’s not that his logic is just that scary. Maybe it's hard to understand what she’s talking about because it really, honestly is that there’s no comparable example featuring a male denizen of the DCU. I mean, even the occasional Nightwing crotch shot *tries* to have context.

Obviously, something had to be done. For The Good Of Fandom.

Luckily, much like Miller, I have no shame.

 
Totally Appropriate Covers (with bonus, never before seen script excerpts!)

 



Hal’s flying away from us through a generic starfield, nothing interesting to see except him. Have him wriggle around, giving us a good shot of his package. Add some details, something fancy for the fanboys to drool over, but don’t let it draw attention away from the point of the cover – that Kyle has nothing, NOTHING, on my boy Hal.

 



Be careful with this one – we don’t want Supes to come off as too powerful, too imposing. Maybe have him lean a bit, off balance, the better to show off his *well filled* briefs. He's fiddling with the waist line, such a cock *heh* tease. He knows he’s got what we want, and if we turn the cover, he’ll let us have it.

 



Well, we’ve done just about every variation on the theme by now, so let’s go back to the basics: Black on black, a full cover shot of Batman’s ass. Add in the utility belt for colour – give it that Sin City look. Show me thick, powerful legs under that latex or whatever the hell he wears. Clenched butt muscles. Make it obvious this is no BatGIRL we’re talking about.


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From: [identity profile] maelithil.livejournal.com


AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

They seem to have shut up for now, but if they start spouting nonesense again can I link them to the pictures? Because this is EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT GODDAMMIT.

Perfect. This is perfect. And also awesome.

*HEARTS YOU MIGHTILY*

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


Go ahead! This is their whole purpose.

I mean, you wouldn't want crotch-grabbing Superman to be unfulfilled...

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From: [identity profile] technopatra.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-05-10 05:59 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] joelpietersen.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-02-25 03:18 pm (UTC) - Expand

From: [identity profile] rubynye.livejournal.com


Wow.

I want to comment praising you for the clear message you've transmitted using art, your well-crafted and precise metaphor, or somesuch intelligent comment as you deserve.

But actually? The little green nutsack seam has my brain melting and dripping out my ears.

Wow.

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


Thanks.

(And I figure if Miller gets recostuming privileges, then so do I.)

I love that detail.

From: [identity profile] avatra.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-04-27 04:14 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: I love that detail.

From: [identity profile] ataniell93.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-05-05 10:26 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: I love that detail.

From: [identity profile] capnjacksparrow.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-05-12 08:55 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: I love that detail.

From: [identity profile] elisem.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-05-16 05:23 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] lizreay.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-08-28 09:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
brownbetty: (The fuck?)

From: [personal profile] brownbetty


…wow, this is exactly as horrifying as it should be, and also, why you are awesome. Gah! I'm going to go brainpuke now.

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


It's very sad I feel victorious on account of you feeling ill, isn't it.

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From: [identity profile] vagabondsal.livejournal.com


Man, if All-Star Batman looked like that, I might actually pick up an issue.

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


Well, there is Diana's ass... You could pretend Bruce is crossdressing?

You know, for *justice*.

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From: [identity profile] nnaloh.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-05-07 03:51 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2006-05-10 10:19 pm (UTC) - Expand

Whoa!

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2006-05-18 07:27 pm (UTC) - Expand

From: [identity profile] minim-calibre.livejournal.com


Damn. I think I love you. Just... yes. Exactly.

::cue ironic use of icon::

From: [identity profile] gileonnen.livejournal.com


The worst/best part is, your lovely and pointed covers are anatomically possible, whereas Miller's lady appears to have disjointed her spine.

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


I know! But I have no drawing skills, so I was left with trying to figure out photoshop. (Or saving myself hours and just doing the text, I suppose, but we've all heard it before.)

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From: [identity profile] pickledginger.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-04-21 06:06 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] wickedprincess3.livejournal.com


Oh god this is hilarious (and a bit disturbing. a lot) but also, so very much just *it*. Oh man. :)

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


hilarious (and a bit disturbing. a lot)
*g* I'm glad that came across. It would have lost something with *tasteful* images, I think.

From: [identity profile] sizequeen.livejournal.com


You know what's astonishing about FM? He can't draw for shit. In "Sin City," the art was "stylized," but in a bright mainstream superhero comic, his drawings look like the work of an arthritic bear.

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


I honestly haven't been following the series... one of the earlier covers (http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/wizarduniverse_1893_52104523) scarred me quite badly.

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From: [identity profile] summerrose.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-05-10 12:18 am (UTC) - Expand

nuts

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2006-05-12 12:05 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: nuts

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Re: nuts

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From: [identity profile] roachspit.livejournal.com


Oh god. Yes, love it, thanks. If just one cover like this made it out, I would never again have to deal with icky guys at the comics shop. But they would finally get it.

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


Exactly. (And I don't think I'd miss the icky type of guys, although it may be the industry might...)

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From: [identity profile] agentrosecotton.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-05-12 04:14 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2006-05-13 09:18 am (UTC) - Expand
sharpest_asp: Close up of a lavender eye in a dark face (Default)

From: [personal profile] sharpest_asp


You make a strong point.

No, Superman's chest as a cover does not freakin' begin to be analogous to a T&A cover. Superman's chest happens to bear an Icon, one as recognizable, world wide, as a flag. If anyone were asked first impression of a Supes' chest cover, the symbol is all they'd be able to mention at first. It is not objectifying the body.

Grr. Fanboys sometimes tick me off.

And yes, I do own pin up art, but I prefer my comic covers to actually reflect the freakin' essence of the book inside!

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


The poster goes on along the lines of it not being Miller's fault Diana's Icon is on her ass, actually... at which point my brain sort of imploded and you can see the result.

I mean, I'm not arguing against pin up covers or blatant fanservice, really. It's just that the objectification *is* there, and it is *skeevy* when you're not the intended audience.

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From: [identity profile] count-fenring.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-04-20 10:52 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] hoperomantic.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-04-23 06:18 am (UTC) - Expand

From: [identity profile] huzzlewhat.livejournal.com


This is brilliant, and disturbing, and funny, and makes the point perfectly. Especially with the "script." Very Well Done.

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


Thanks very much!

(I just... I can not get over that script for All Star Batman. Or that they *published it*.)

I agree.

From: [identity profile] morin.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-05-07 09:33 am (UTC) - Expand

From: [identity profile] count-fenring.livejournal.com


Heh. My fandom's weakness is listening to lying blue god-gnomes when they tell me I can't hurt yellow things.

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From: [identity profile] badgerbag.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-04-23 09:37 pm (UTC) - Expand

From: [identity profile] marag.livejournal.com


These? Are fabulous! Every woman in comic fandom should bookmark this post for the next time the "but women aren't objectified" argument comes up. Heh.

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


And if they come back and say "What? I don't see the problem here either," then, well, they are still dumb, I suppose. Or more probably lying.

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From: [identity profile] kensan-oni.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-04-21 01:33 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] sunless-death.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-05-11 03:31 am (UTC) - Expand

From: [identity profile] violetfishy.livejournal.com


Ended up here from a link on someone elses journal.

You win. The internets is yours!

From: [identity profile] razorsmile.livejournal.com


Sheeee-it, if I saw any of those on the stands, I'd be on 'em like white on rice. Any comic doing something that unexpected absolutely deserves my $$$.

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


Hee! This is obviously a marketing strategy DC hasn't considered.

From: [identity profile] ghostgecko.livejournal.com


(here from the onion)
Y'know, after those TBS commercials for Lord of the Rngs targeting slash writers (the Frodo is gay for Sam ones), maybe DC will cotton on to alternative markets?
Nah . . . .

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


(Hey, cool!)

I've never seen those commercials, which surprises me - I would expect they'd have spread all over the internet. When were they aired?

maybe DC will cotton on to alternative markets?
You never know! Perhaps the competition from the yaoi manga will finally drive them to it.

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From: [identity profile] petit.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-04-24 08:02 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] kellyfaerie.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-05-10 02:50 pm (UTC) - Expand

From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/__marcelo/


The Superman cover... Oh, *god*, the Superman cover... I don't know what's more disturbing, the drawings or your spot-on Miller notes.

You rule. Please don't do this too often, it couldn't have been good for your sanity, trying to get inside his head...

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


It was actually surprisingly easy to mimic the script style. I don't know if that says more about him... or *me*. I've decided not to dwell.


From: [identity profile] scarfe.livejournal.com


You know, I read his Sin City stuff and I think, "Okay, he's obviously exaggerating the noir conventions regarding women, turning them around to grant the women of old town a kind of power and autonomy, so maybe I can let that slide...as problematic as it is."

Then I read stuff like this so-called "All Star" Batman and Robin series full of cheesecake ass shots and I think, "Okay...maybe he's just exaggerating masculinity conventions of comics to make some kind of satirical point. Dark Knight Returns is pretty satirical...he can do satire..."

Then I read the All Star issue with Black Canary and see this cover and I think, "Yeah...Miller just likes T'n'A." Subtlety goes out the window. And to do this to Wonder Woman, off all characters. Where the fuck is her arm? It was in the way of a boob, so off it goes?

I bet he’s getting cut a fat paycheque for this stuff. Hope he's enjoying himself.

From: [identity profile] blackdove24.livejournal.com


yeeeah... i was kinda thinkin that miller was just being satirical too, and i had to have an argument with someone before i saw the light, but yeah. he's just a huge. fucking. misogynist.
and bill sienkiewicz kinda came off that way too in stray toasters (well, also elektra:assassin, but miller wrote that, so i wasn't entirely sure where to assign the blame), which is sad.

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From: [identity profile] collie13.livejournal.com


Came here from a friend's LJ. You are a bad. Bad. Person. Keyboards everywhere curse your name.

And now I must go clean my keyboard... ;)

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


Hee! I'm sorry, but I make no apologies!

Or, wait. Hmmm. Can I start the gloating over?

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From: [identity profile] collie13.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-04-21 04:30 am (UTC) - Expand

From: [identity profile] blackdove24.livejournal.com


hm, and here i thought you were going to refer to the black canary cover i saw tonight, but no. wow.

and i would just like to say, HELLS YEAH! i might actually pic up an issue of action comics if it had the promise of such action in it ; )
also, i'm surprised that no one's mentioned this (http://www.comicartcommunity.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=4484&sessionid=d349c9de4bed635440a449cbc9b9870a) recent cover though. i mean, while not quite frank miller, my first thought when i saw it was "WHOA! ASS!" and i briefly thought about buying x-men again (partially due to a fondness for silvestri from days when he sucked less and my taste in comics sucked more).

From: [identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com


Hee! This is the first time I've seen that cover - Marvel is confusing, all that continuity. *Nothing* like DC. ;)

I hadn't seen the Black Canary cover either, at least not until after I posted this. I still think the Wonder Woman one is worse, however.

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From: [identity profile] pickledginger.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-04-21 06:12 am (UTC) - Expand

Funny thing

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Re: Funny thing

From: [identity profile] denyer.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-05-11 04:53 am (UTC) - Expand

perhaps

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Re: perhaps

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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2006-05-11 12:36 pm (UTC) - Expand

um?

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Re: um?

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Re: um?

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