![[personal profile]](http://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
It's understood as a general premise among most comics fans that there's sexism in comics. It's understood as a general premise among most *female* fans - and, apparently, a somewhat, *worryingly*, smaller proportion of comics fans in general - that this is a *problem*.
When talking about it, we often point at the art for examples, because the art is *right there*, but it's deeper than that. It's the way the characters are written. The way (and the reasons) they are killed off. The way (and the *if*) they're remembered.
(I'm sure most everyone reading this is familiar with the Women in Refrigerators site. It hasn't been updated for a while, but this isn't because there are no new names to add. Likewise, I'm sure we've all seen the pages from Frank Miller's script for All Star Batman.)
Infinite Crisis may have changed some things around the DCU - we will see - but it is already very apparent that it did not change THAT.
And there are people smarter than me who are pissed off and doing something about it.
![[livejournal.com profile]](http://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif){kind=small}
monkeycrackmary is starting up Girl-Wonder.Org. As I said here, I want to make this site primarily concerned with Stephanie Brown and how sick lots of fans are of being spoon-fed bullshit like the idea that her death "had a major impact on our heroes and their lives, and will continue to do so in the year to come. I see no need to change that" when the only place she's been mentioned at all is in the (cancelled) Batgirl and a Batgirl story in the (cancelled) Solo.
But there are a lot of other reasons for female fans in comics to be pissed, and so I'm here offering a hundred megs of space at the new domain to anyone and everyone who wants to champion a similar cause, make a fansite, host fanworks, or even just have a personal page as a female comics fan. The only things you can't apply for space for are trafficking scanned comics (torrents are your less-illegal friend, yo) or online petitions. Online petitions do squat. If you want someone to notice your support of a cause, buy a stamp and an envelope.
There's a lot of explanation and interesting discussion (and a lot of argry discussion, but it is rightfully angry and still *interesting*) to be found here, here, here, and here. Or just go through her recent blog entries. There's also talk of starting an Ad-Libbed letter writing campaign which is amusing, pointed, and appropriate.
There are many quotes I just want to crop out and point at and go WORD. YES. But I shall leave you to go there on your own, except for one.
It's about... well, to be honest, a lot of it for me (and I know this would be a very, very dicey reason to include on any list, and I don't intend to use it on the site) is that I have an under-ten sister who likes to play at being Robin. She's only just started reading comics, and I'm in this terrible position where I'm actually hoping she'll never read these same books I gobble up.
WORD. YES.
Also.
petronelle is more eloquent than I could be on why it matters as a *fan*.littledarkvoice is starting a wiki-type webcylopedia on the history of female superheroes. It should be a fun project. The origins (not to be confused with the Secret Origins!!!) of Wonder Woman and Power Girl, for instance, have bits that make me giggle. The origins of Oracle, much as I love the character, has bits that never fail to make me cranky.
____
This is something I care strongly about. And part of it is that, yes, I want superhero comics to be a totally valid art form that can be passed on to future readers without shame or essays about negotiated reading. (At least, from a *feminist* perspective. Comic fans either get skilled at the general practise or their brains explode.) There are issues enough with sexism in society without *my hobby*, to which I give *my money*, being part of the problem.
And, honestly, a lot of it is that I am shallow. I want to be able to read comics about my favourite characters without being cranky and thinking "Ew!" and "Pants, plz! Put on some goddamn *pants!"
![[identity profile]](http://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
(For serious. According to the website of the new-new-artist on Supergirl, Kara is flying around with a REALLY SMALL THONG under the skirt she FLIES AROUND IN. Or, "skirt". I just... pretty much had a *spasm* in my *brain* and seriously considered giving up on comics all together and maybe setting fire to my collection. And the store. And possibly the DC Comics offices, if there was cheap airfare.
I just. SHE IS FIFTEEN YEARS OLD YOU CREEPY OLD MEN. AND ALSO *SUPERGIRL*, FOR FUCKSAKES. *weeps*
*weeps tears of RAGE*)
From:
no subject
lol.
::ducks and runs::
From:
no subject
Do not disrespect my
wordlessrage!From:
no subject
In all seriousness, I half agree, but the other half is indeed more Paglian about it and says that superpowered role models who express their sexuality openly are a positive force for girls reading comics (and for the boys for entirely different reasons, yes.)
Are they being sexually-exploited? Well, they're being sexually-depicted, but that's not quite the same thing. The power imbalance does indeed work in their favour. Saturn Girl can jiggle all she wants. Someone makes a move on her and they're going to wind up in an ICU. It's the old Xena, Warrior Princess debate. If the story goes to great pains to drive home the point that Xena controls the if, when and where in her romantic life, how exploited is she truly by showing cleavage and leg? Isn't the better message that women are indeed sexual creatures (just like men) and that gals, it's okay to cause serious bodily damage to anybody who tries to force their affections on you?
Thor's figured it out. The answer isn't pants for girls... it's skirts for boys!
Corpses in fridges though... that does smack of someone with "issues".
From:
no subject
Yes, sure. See Peej, for instance. Lois, in a different respect. Grace.
But Kara isn't one of them. Leaving aside the fact that she is supposed to be an adolescent (do I think it is healthy for girls to have superpowered *teenaged* role models flying around in miniskirts and thongs, not so much), she isn't wearing the outfit to make a statement. There is not any indication that she even is *aware* it is not totally appropriate Earth clothing... nor that anyone *else* is. The only reason she's in that outfit is Turner's character design. (And it's really a quite awful design. For all that I dislike the nickname "vertebrae lass", it is appropriate.)
Isn't the better message that women are indeed sexual creatures (just like men) and that gals, it's okay to cause serious bodily damage to anybody who tries to force their affections on you?
This really isn't the issue. Kara could fly around naked - she wouldn't be in any greater danger of being raped. The problem is that she's the female version of Superman.
Little boys are supposed to want to grow up to be Superman. He's instantly recognisable, and there's no *way* DC would allow him to have an ongoing, mainstream series with Superman in nothing but a cape and thong. The S-symbol means something more than just the person currently writing the series.
Little girls... (now) have Kara. Objectified, and *ignorant* of it. Unutterably powerful, and star of little more than a skin-rag. I would *never* offer the series to a young girl.
From:
no subject
Kara's more like a Teen Titan, and the TTs are a sexualized youth superhero soap opera. The point with some of these characters is to give a sexual outlet and yes, self-identity, to youth who mainstream society would prefer to believe don't think of sex. Kara's the sexy naive saving-herself-for-marriage girl (to drive the point home, half the time Supergirl is really an "angel"). Raven's the been-there-done-that broken goth girl. Starfire's the slutty airhead cheerleader. (and really, with Starfire around I don't see why anyone points fingers at Supergirl) Eventually, girls who are reading these titles for identity cues (and really, I think kids are brighter than that, anyway... I think it's only adults who have forgotten what being a kid was like who believe kids have role models in the sense that adults mean it) will get to the stage where they no longer reflect the characters aroud them and they'll long for something a little deeper like Oracle or the Huntress or something.
As for little boys wanting to grow up to be Superman... little boys want the powers of Superman. They want to grow up to be Batman though. Most of 'em. I mean, I remember the kids who actually wanted to roleplay as Superman when we were playing heroes. There were two types: the ones who wanted the powers and then played like a red kryptonite wish-fulfilment version of the Big Boy Scout and the short bus kids who played his Dudley Do-Rightishness to the hilt but never used half his powers. We ended up banning him as a character. I think little boys in a more innocent time were supposed to want to be Superman... now they're just supposed to envy him his power and the simplicity of his vision - at least, that's the intent of his more rational portrayers.
From:
no subject
I think it's only adults who have forgotten what being a kid was like who believe kids have role models in the sense that adults mean it
Kids identify with the characters they read about far more than adults do. "Role Model" might be too strong a term, but it is close.
I don't think I ever played Superheroes as a kid. I don't think it ever even occurred to me, even though I grew up with them. When we did imaginary games, it was mostly shades of "Suddenly, you're in an improbable world: React!"
I think little boys in a more innocent time were supposed to want to be Superman... now they're just supposed to envy him his power and the simplicity of his vision - at least, that's the intent of his more rational portrayers.
In the books aimed at adults, perhaps, some of them. And those stories resonate because of what Superman is *supposed* to mean. In the stories aimed at kids, however, I don't pick that up at all.
Kara's more like a Teen Titan, and the TTs are a sexualized youth superhero soap opera. The point with some of these characters is to give a sexual outlet and yes, self-identity, to youth who mainstream society would prefer to believe don't think of sex.
Again, sure, with some of them. *Kara* bypasses "realistic exploration of teenage sexuality" and goes straight into "fanboy fantasy." She didn't even pick out her own costume.
Kara's the sexy naive saving-herself-for-marriage girl (to drive the point home, half the time Supergirl is really an "angel").
Nope. Which makes me wonder if we're arguing different Supergirls, here. If you've never read the Loeb run, then you are both sane and missing the relevant context.
Starfire around I don't see why anyone points fingers at Supergirl
Hey, Kory *transcends* the fact that she's a beautiful alien princess from a sexually open society with a tragic past and superpowers and improbable hair. She's not portrayed as *ignorant* of the effects of her costume, and she's not *fifteen years old*.
If you really can't see the difference... I just have to stare bemusedly at the screen, thinking cynical thoughts.
From:
no subject
I've just seen some scans. Nothing that raised concerns though.
As for Starfire, you're forgetting all those direct-to-video releases (http://www.philosophiste.com/images/bukkoriandr_video.gif). "Oh, but those were made back when she was captured. That was totally against her will." Uh huh. If that's true, then ask yourself why she still uses the same publicity agent listed in the credits, man.
From:
no subject
Ah yes. The sad case of the vintage fan - stuck buying back-issues of Captain America and that one part of Infinite Crisis with Barry in... ;p
(I once made the mistake of buying an Kara-centric issue of Superman/Batman and leaving it findable when family was over. It didn't go over well.)
As for Starfire, you're forgetting all those direct-to-video releases.
*gasp* Kory! For shame! I didn't think *Model* was a euphemism... *shakes head sadly*
But if there's a fan-made porn cartoon out there, rather than just a photoshopped cover or something, I'm *impressed*. And it's *got* to be better quality than that Batman live action thing that was going around a while ago.
(I really am all for inappropriate porniness. Just... in appropriate places, so to say.)
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
(I have a horrible feeling this is my default comment on all your posts. But it is fascinating. I've been clicking through and going "Oooh!" and "Aaah!" and "OMG, FRANK MILLER MUST DIE!" and now I feel much heartened by the force of fandom.)
From:
And also, thanks, of course ;)
Really! I was staring at a long list of proofs of things that are NP complete (for fannish reasons - yes, yes I know), and bemoaning my complete failure at being Good At Math and envying you and such.
From:
Re: And also, thanks, of course ;)
(That fandom brings me so much joy and so much pain. If I had all the free time in the world, I would extend my services to the entire internet to beta the maths in their fic.)
From:
Re: And also, thanks, of course ;)
(I haven't seen much of the SGA stuff involving math-as-sex, but I hear it's out there. Care to share any of the particularly funny/painful bits?
You know, I'm surprised there isn't a math beta service available, much like the lists of grammar Nazis floating about.)
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
(Although I shall poke around before I promise to accept or not. Comics-related, I'm going to guess... ;)
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
From: (Anonymous)
hello
From: (Anonymous)
hello
From:
Re: hello