odditycollector: Supergirl hovering in black silhouette except for the red crest. Cape fluttering. Background is a roiling, raining sky. (Default)
odditycollector ([personal profile] odditycollector) wrote2006-04-19 08:34 pm

This would have been easier if I could draw.

I really should know better, but I clicked on a link to the DC message boards, topic of the new Frank Miller cover.

In summary... this is why I’m going to stay way the hell over here okay thanks. However, one exchange did catch my attention and would not let me shake it as it might have a sane person.

[livejournal.com profile] maelithil:
Depicting [women] as an ass, a pair of tits, some gorgeous thighs is doing them a disservice. Distilling them into nothing but their sexual attributes is objectifying. And that's exactly what this cover does.


Random Fanboy:
And notice that Superman's chest is OFTEN a whole panel unto itself. Not Superman fighting the bad guy. Not Superman standing full figure. Superman's chest. Just his chest. His huge, massive, S-draped, extraterrestrially muscular chest. Is Superman being objectified? Is he being used? Should I cry for Superman?


And. Just. What? This is the counterexample?

But! Maybe it’s not that his logic is just that scary. Maybe it's hard to understand what she’s talking about because it really, honestly is that there’s no comparable example featuring a male denizen of the DCU. I mean, even the occasional Nightwing crotch shot *tries* to have context.

Obviously, something had to be done. For The Good Of Fandom.

Luckily, much like Miller, I have no shame.

 
Totally Appropriate Covers (with bonus, never before seen script excerpts!)

 



Hal’s flying away from us through a generic starfield, nothing interesting to see except him. Have him wriggle around, giving us a good shot of his package. Add some details, something fancy for the fanboys to drool over, but don’t let it draw attention away from the point of the cover – that Kyle has nothing, NOTHING, on my boy Hal.

 



Be careful with this one – we don’t want Supes to come off as too powerful, too imposing. Maybe have him lean a bit, off balance, the better to show off his *well filled* briefs. He's fiddling with the waist line, such a cock *heh* tease. He knows he’s got what we want, and if we turn the cover, he’ll let us have it.

 



Well, we’ve done just about every variation on the theme by now, so let’s go back to the basics: Black on black, a full cover shot of Batman’s ass. Add in the utility belt for colour – give it that Sin City look. Show me thick, powerful legs under that latex or whatever the hell he wears. Clenched butt muscles. Make it obvious this is no BatGIRL we’re talking about.


free hit counter

[identity profile] beatniknight.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 01:21 am (UTC)(link)
Oh pshaw, if you can't stay brilliant the internet will simply turn on you. Either way, you're more famous than me, and that's something to be proud of.

[identity profile] dmlaenker.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 01:24 am (UTC)(link)
That's beautiful. And slightly creepy. Though I'm just now starting to get back into comics after torturing myself for years about how erotic I find them.

[identity profile] amise.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 02:01 am (UTC)(link)
Yet another person here via Making Light and I think I love you. Really.

I gave up on DC and Marvel years ago. If someone could drop me a line when they start to produce covers like that, I'd be much obliged.

[identity profile] tigtog.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 02:17 am (UTC)(link)
Hi Karen! I'm pretty excited for you and your terrific work, and just a little bit thrilled that I totally lucked into getting the word out about it more widely! I put up a little link on my blog (http://tigtogblog.blogspot.com/2006/05/objectification-101-for-fanboys.html) after following the linkg from Alas, A Blog and also on a mailing list I happen to share with a Tor author, he forwards your page on to TNH at Making Light, and then Feministe picks up on my post and now the geekscheesebeefcakewars are raging there too.

I love the internets!
(http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/09/helping-comic-book-geeks-understand-objectification/)

[identity profile] tigtog.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 02:19 am (UTC)(link)
OK, that was an embarrassing overuse of exclamation marks. And I forgot to close the [a] tag (hangs head in geekly shame).

Objectifying miracles.

(Anonymous) 2006-05-10 02:20 am (UTC)(link)
My mom turned on the PAX 'Miracle' show, and it seems that every one of them is how a person had been physically repaired, and not how they had been spiritually healed.

Green Lantern...David Wojnarowicz

(Anonymous) 2006-05-10 02:21 am (UTC)(link)
Anybody here familiar with the paintings of David Wojnarowicz? He was a pretty radical New York City artist in the 1980s who made a lot of graffiti street works, performances, photography, etc...was shown at the Whitney. That Green Lantern picture is a dead ringer for one of David's street works from around 1982 or 83. It is kind of annoying. Anyone here know his work? I'll try to find the image.

[identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 02:31 am (UTC)(link)
It's all right - I figured it was intentional. Only *now* do you reveal your shame! ;)

And thanks for sketching the links out - I'm surprised at how it suddenly got to boing boing (and may have something of a fetish for networks in action, but shh).

[identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 02:35 am (UTC)(link)
PS. The link to Feministe is quite hilarious!

Thanks for the Visual

(Anonymous) 2006-05-10 02:39 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks for the awesome visual. You are absolutely right-- we cannot imagine what the counterpart to female objectification is. So much of the hegemonic oppression is mostly aptly depicted when we replace man for woman, black for white, rich for poor. Contrast perfectly illuminates the absurdity.

Thanks for the idea-- I need to write a counterpart to Laura Session Stepp's article on how sexually liberated assertive women are causing purported increasing impotence.

-D. Colson
www.atruthteller.com

[identity profile] badcat13.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 02:43 am (UTC)(link)
That's fucking awesome! I've long hated the "T&A" factor in comics! In my experience (reading comics for 14+ years and working in a comic store), as the ratio of T&A goes up in a comic, the level of good writing goes down. Yes, there can be exceptions, but in general, that's the rule.

[identity profile] marith.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 03:39 am (UTC)(link)
This post is a thing of beauty. Thank you. (And I think TNH is right about the Frank Miller cover, here (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/007536.html) - her arms are over her head and she's pulling off her superheroine boob harness.)



perhaps

(Anonymous) 2006-05-10 03:43 am (UTC)(link)
this whole one sided thing is odd to you because in real life females don't dress to show off those very areas? while guys just tend to wear whatever's comfortable.

the reason there is a focus on those things is because women are in general the more beautiful of the species. these are drawings. drawings tend to focus on...ummm...idunno...visual things. sure women can be smart, creative, whatever they want...but there's nothing wrong with being a sexual, sexy, being. move on.

Women don't objectify men in the same way. They want their men to be powerful, rich, charismatic, funny even. Looks are in there but not in the same order.

[identity profile] ptika.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 04:45 am (UTC)(link)
Yay for ass!

The world is just a little bit more in harmony now. :)

Re: perhaps

[identity profile] blackdove24.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 05:27 am (UTC)(link)
the reason there is a focus on those things is because women are in general the more beautiful of the species.

first off, this is an opinion, therefore diminishing the strength of your argument. i would say that the real reason lies moreso in the fact that comics, and particularly superhero comics, tend to be created by straight men, for other straight men.

sure women can be smart, creative, whatever they want...but there's nothing wrong with being a sexual, sexy, being. move on.

it's not as if the frank miller drawing in question is a celebration of wonder woman's beauty, but rather her tits and ass, since the entire focus of the piece is on this sexually exaggerated female form, with the star spangled skirt that tells us this female is wonder woman almost being an afterthought.
and no, there's nothing wrong with women being "sexy, sexual beings," but this is hardly a depiction of a woman enjoying her own sexuality as her own person, but rather a fantasy of a sexuality created by and for the male gaze, of this contorted figure whose sole characteristic and purpose in this drawing is to please the onlooker. and the female as the object whose sole purpose is to please the onlooker tends to be a very frank miller thing to do, hence the outrage of the original post.

and as for how women and men dress, and what women look for in men, your thoughts on these matters seem to rely more on stereotypes. there are plenty of men who don't dress necessarily in whatever's comfortable, but also tend to dress in ways that will show off their better physical attributes. and there are some women for whom looks and sex appeal are a priority, and not every woman's out to find a man who's rich, or powerful, or charismatic, or funny.
ext_367457: Camera-phone self-portrait, outdoors, with a collared shirt and tie (Default)

[identity profile] nentuaby.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 06:42 am (UTC)(link)
Seconded... That thing is the Interrobang for the new generation.

[identity profile] vgnwtch.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 06:59 am (UTC)(link)
Well, as my parents always drummed into me, "Courtesy costs nothing" :)

jiggidy

[identity profile] k9d.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 07:32 am (UTC)(link)
boingboing!

[identity profile] alcarilinque.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 09:55 am (UTC)(link)
You're right. A friend just commented to me about womens tennis while we were walking around town, and she caught a few seconds of it on a bar projection screen. Apparently before one of the players served, they spent time panning up and down her body; something they'd never do in men's tennis.

We both decided eventually that either they should stop doing this to women in particular, or do it to men too. We'd like to see it. Yes objectification is wrong and whine whine whine, but its apparently something that people need to some extent. Humans are social, and we like to stare at people from the comfort of our own homes and bars and whatnot, so look at Myspace and Facebook and the like. I guess perhaps the major crime here is that its so one sided-- it's not as if women don't objectify men in some way either, or men with other men and women with other women and the whole slew of gender combinations and etc.

Anyway, awesome post. Thanks for being creative. :)

[identity profile] skytalon.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 01:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Came here by way of Boingboing.net

YOu go, girl! I, too, tire of seeing those women. *sigh*

All these are HOT!

Re: Looks good to me

(Anonymous) 2006-05-10 02:06 pm (UTC)(link)
It has nothing to do with male sexuality in and of itself and everything to do with women's very identity being stripped down, made nonexistent, for the sole purpose of exciting male sexuality and giving men power. I'm not a woman, I'm a piece of meat, an object, a brainless fuckhole. I don't get a say in it and I'm dehumanised and abused because of it.

But you're a man, so of course it's all about you, isn't it?

Re: Yeah right....

(Anonymous) 2006-05-10 02:12 pm (UTC)(link)
P.S: There's no "a" in pedophile.

There is in the UK, septic tank.

[identity profile] kellyfaerie.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 02:50 pm (UTC)(link)
I haven't looked for them on the internet so I dont know where they'd be found (but probably all those ad sites would have them, for a fee), but they were quite recently aired on TBS. I dont watch alot of TV but I was flipping by and saw that ad. It has the song "secret lovers" going on in the background and keeps showing edited shots of frodo and sam so that it appears they are completely in love with each other. Classic.

[identity profile] diluvian.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 03:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, god, you *win*!

Awesome!

[identity profile] michaeltlh.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 04:57 pm (UTC)(link)

Great job! If only they really did put out covers like this! :-)

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