odditycollector: Supergirl hovering in black silhouette except for the red crest. Cape fluttering. Background is a roiling, raining sky. (Default)
odditycollector ([personal profile] odditycollector) wrote2006-04-19 08:34 pm

This would have been easier if I could draw.

I really should know better, but I clicked on a link to the DC message boards, topic of the new Frank Miller cover.

In summary... this is why I’m going to stay way the hell over here okay thanks. However, one exchange did catch my attention and would not let me shake it as it might have a sane person.

[livejournal.com profile] maelithil:
Depicting [women] as an ass, a pair of tits, some gorgeous thighs is doing them a disservice. Distilling them into nothing but their sexual attributes is objectifying. And that's exactly what this cover does.


Random Fanboy:
And notice that Superman's chest is OFTEN a whole panel unto itself. Not Superman fighting the bad guy. Not Superman standing full figure. Superman's chest. Just his chest. His huge, massive, S-draped, extraterrestrially muscular chest. Is Superman being objectified? Is he being used? Should I cry for Superman?


And. Just. What? This is the counterexample?

But! Maybe it’s not that his logic is just that scary. Maybe it's hard to understand what she’s talking about because it really, honestly is that there’s no comparable example featuring a male denizen of the DCU. I mean, even the occasional Nightwing crotch shot *tries* to have context.

Obviously, something had to be done. For The Good Of Fandom.

Luckily, much like Miller, I have no shame.

 
Totally Appropriate Covers (with bonus, never before seen script excerpts!)

 



Hal’s flying away from us through a generic starfield, nothing interesting to see except him. Have him wriggle around, giving us a good shot of his package. Add some details, something fancy for the fanboys to drool over, but don’t let it draw attention away from the point of the cover – that Kyle has nothing, NOTHING, on my boy Hal.

 



Be careful with this one – we don’t want Supes to come off as too powerful, too imposing. Maybe have him lean a bit, off balance, the better to show off his *well filled* briefs. He's fiddling with the waist line, such a cock *heh* tease. He knows he’s got what we want, and if we turn the cover, he’ll let us have it.

 



Well, we’ve done just about every variation on the theme by now, so let’s go back to the basics: Black on black, a full cover shot of Batman’s ass. Add in the utility belt for colour – give it that Sin City look. Show me thick, powerful legs under that latex or whatever the hell he wears. Clenched butt muscles. Make it obvious this is no BatGIRL we’re talking about.


free hit counter

[identity profile] donnaidh-sidhe.livejournal.com 2006-05-05 08:50 pm (UTC)(link)
Here via Alas's link farm (hey, a local)!

I have to link this. I like the fact that you have no shame. It makes for interesting ideas. :D

[identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com 2006-05-09 09:59 pm (UTC)(link)
*obligatory "Woot! Vancouver!"*

I did try to have shame, once. Then I got an LJ, and it was all pretty much downhill from there...

But, yeah. Feel free to link - that's pretty much what the internet is for.

[identity profile] dragonscholar.livejournal.com 2006-05-05 09:49 pm (UTC)(link)
You are so friended.

[identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com 2006-05-09 10:01 pm (UTC)(link)
*g* Good to meet you.

[identity profile] nokuren.livejournal.com 2006-05-05 10:47 pm (UTC)(link)
The most glaringly bad parts of that Miller cover are the fact that A) it's really badly drawn and B) makes absolutely no sense anatomically.

It's like her ribcage is disconnected from her spine.

But, beside that, why is it such a shock to realize that comic books are designed to be read by the 13-30 male demographic? Overly exaggerated female figures entice and draw in this demographic. Comic books are for making money and that's one easy way to do it. The male figures are stereotypes in their own right of idealistic attitudes of this demographic(Superman) or pure adolescent rage(Punisher). It's all designed to sell. Sure, there's an art behind it. Most authors and artists relish in he stories and drawing they make and they do try to elevate it to a higher level than just words and pictures. Still doesn't matter if it's not going to sell and DC or Marvel won't continue the line if it doesn't.

(Anonymous) 2006-05-06 02:02 am (UTC)(link)
I don't think covers can really get across the point that T&A women are *never* shown in *any* other way; they have no other existence.

[identity profile] parke-matru.livejournal.com 2006-05-06 02:31 am (UTC)(link)
The Action Comics is a nice example(adding a double meaning to the title, on top if it) -- and it ties in to the "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" essay.

[identity profile] skalja.livejournal.com 2006-05-06 03:28 am (UTC)(link)
Bravissima! Bravissima!

I think the Miller-esque descriptions are what makes it. Superman the cock tease ...

[identity profile] mycrust.livejournal.com 2006-05-08 03:52 am (UTC)(link)
Totally and completely awesome.

[identity profile] archimer.livejournal.com 2006-05-09 12:44 am (UTC)(link)
Brilliant.

[identity profile] mattcomics.livejournal.com 2006-05-09 04:42 pm (UTC)(link)
IMO Frank Millers superhero work is astonishingly overated and just plain dumb most of the time.

In regards to the whole issue, I have always viewed glorification of the human form as a stylization of the genre used as a way to express power and nobility. I guess this is why I don't think of classic superhero costumes like Green Lanterns or Supermans as "body condoms", and why I don't really feel there is anything bad about Wonder Womans costume in and of itself. However, they way some artists handle this stylization and the costumes is where we start having problems. They either overdo it, or they pick totally the wrong moment, time, story, or context for fanservice.

[identity profile] frankengirlll.livejournal.com 2006-05-09 04:56 pm (UTC)(link)
This is fabulous - :)

[identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com 2006-05-09 10:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks!

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_illumina_/ 2006-05-09 05:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com 2006-05-09 09:53 pm (UTC)(link)
You're very welcome. ;)

[identity profile] sonicwylde.livejournal.com 2006-05-09 06:41 pm (UTC)(link)
I would so read comics if they did covers like that. REally that would renew my interest mightly.

[identity profile] vgnwtch.livejournal.com 2006-05-09 07:30 pm (UTC)(link)
I saw this through Making Light (http://www.nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/) - do you mind if I link to this entry in my LJ? It is absolutely superb.

[identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com 2006-05-09 09:48 pm (UTC)(link)
Hi, glad you thought so!

If you want to link, go ahead. No need to ask - that's what the internet is for. *g*

(no subject)

[identity profile] vgnwtch.livejournal.com - 2006-05-10 06:59 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] one-in-progress.livejournal.com 2006-05-09 09:20 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm here via Alas, a Blog. *Really* enjoyed your post, thanks!

[identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com 2006-05-09 09:51 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you!

And it's really interesting so see how people find this post, so thanks for that as well. ;)

[identity profile] kalimeg.livejournal.com 2006-05-09 11:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Delicious. I've pointed an entire SF group to your entry :)

[identity profile] kc-risenphoenix.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 12:43 am (UTC)(link)
Personally, I LOVE your covers. I would have bought them in a New York second! **pant**pant** I wouldn't have even checked the cover price. I keep hoping something like this will happen...

WAIT! You were talking about objectifying... Not sure I understand. It is a comic book. Hooters objectifies women...

As a gay man, I don't find your covers objectifying at all. I find myself wishing I could find these comics!

[identity profile] beatniknight.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 01:02 am (UTC)(link)
I'm sure that you're going to have about a billion people coming to your LJ from boingboing and the like, but would it totally inappropriate if I added you because I think this post is brilliant?

[identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 01:06 am (UTC)(link)
Wow. I'm internet famous!

But no, go ahead, no need to ask. (Although suddenly I worry I shan't be able to keep up the brilliance.)

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[identity profile] tigtog.livejournal.com - 2006-05-10 02:17 (UTC) - Expand

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[identity profile] tigtog.livejournal.com - 2006-05-10 02:19 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] dmlaenker.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 01:03 am (UTC)(link)
Curiously enough, as a gay man I was both expecting and fearing a Tom Of Finland style Green Lantern cover.

[identity profile] odditycollector.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 01:10 am (UTC)(link)
Hee. Sorry. (Although there's a link to Wolverine in tight jeans around here somewhere, and that is *slightly* closer. If you, y'know. Approve of Wolverine.)

(no subject)

[identity profile] dmlaenker.livejournal.com - 2006-05-10 01:24 (UTC) - Expand

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[identity profile] jamjar.livejournal.com - 2006-05-11 14:58 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] akashayi.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 01:10 am (UTC)(link)
Cheers! This was unbelievably refreshing to see.

[identity profile] amise.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 02:01 am (UTC)(link)
Yet another person here via Making Light and I think I love you. Really.

I gave up on DC and Marvel years ago. If someone could drop me a line when they start to produce covers like that, I'd be much obliged.

Objectifying miracles.

(Anonymous) 2006-05-10 02:20 am (UTC)(link)
My mom turned on the PAX 'Miracle' show, and it seems that every one of them is how a person had been physically repaired, and not how they had been spiritually healed.

Green Lantern...David Wojnarowicz

(Anonymous) 2006-05-10 02:21 am (UTC)(link)
Anybody here familiar with the paintings of David Wojnarowicz? He was a pretty radical New York City artist in the 1980s who made a lot of graffiti street works, performances, photography, etc...was shown at the Whitney. That Green Lantern picture is a dead ringer for one of David's street works from around 1982 or 83. It is kind of annoying. Anyone here know his work? I'll try to find the image.

Thanks for the Visual

(Anonymous) 2006-05-10 02:39 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks for the awesome visual. You are absolutely right-- we cannot imagine what the counterpart to female objectification is. So much of the hegemonic oppression is mostly aptly depicted when we replace man for woman, black for white, rich for poor. Contrast perfectly illuminates the absurdity.

Thanks for the idea-- I need to write a counterpart to Laura Session Stepp's article on how sexually liberated assertive women are causing purported increasing impotence.

-D. Colson
www.atruthteller.com

[identity profile] badcat13.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 02:43 am (UTC)(link)
That's fucking awesome! I've long hated the "T&A" factor in comics! In my experience (reading comics for 14+ years and working in a comic store), as the ratio of T&A goes up in a comic, the level of good writing goes down. Yes, there can be exceptions, but in general, that's the rule.

[identity profile] marith.livejournal.com 2006-05-10 03:39 am (UTC)(link)
This post is a thing of beauty. Thank you. (And I think TNH is right about the Frank Miller cover, here (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/007536.html) - her arms are over her head and she's pulling off her superheroine boob harness.)



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